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AV: Where
does your love of music come from and when was it that
you decided that writing and composing music was the
path that would offer the most fulfillment to you?
KW: My parents were both classical
piano teachers, so they started me out on piano at an
early age. So, I suppose I received a double dose of
genetic predisposition to music, as well as being exposed
to it in the household from the very beginning. I can't
say I loved playing the piano, because I remember that
I avoided the daily practice schedule my mother imposed
on me, but in retrospect, it gave me an excellent foundation,
especially regarding technique. When I was about 13,
I asked my mother if I could stop piano and start playing
in the neighborhood rock band. To my amazement, she
said yes -- she knew that's what I wanted, and was very
supportive, rather than trying to force her preferences
on me. That's when I started to really enjoy music more
and see it's power and influence -- pop music was connecting
with my heart and soul in a much more immediate and
fun way than classical had. I enjoyed learning to imitate
other musicians, and figure out chord changes and melodies
-- it was great ear training. I seemed to gravitate
toward progressive rock as I got further into my teens
-- I suppose the mixture of classical and rock music
combined elements that I enjoyed about both. ELP, Jethro
Tull, Yes, Genesis, Gentle Giant, on and on.
There were so many original and innovative progressive
bands back then. When I joined Happy The Man, I was
19 and had just started to write so I was a bit of a
late bloomer regarding composition. I dropped out of
college during the first semester of my freshman year
because I really knew that I wanted to pursue music
as a career, although I had no clue as to how to go
about that (still don't, 30+ years later). Music was
in my blood -- the mystery, the magic, the emotions
fused with the intellect.
AV:
Knowing that you have long and varied career that
brings you to where you are now could you give me the
cliff notes version of the more important aspects of
your musical career to this point.
KW: 1973: Joined Happy The Man
(HTM) and began writing music in earnest. Worked a day
job in a factory.
1976: HTM signed with Arista Records, and recorded
first album at A&M Studios in Hollywood with British
producer Ken Scott (he'd engineered and/or produced
The Beatles White album, David Bowie, Mahavishnu Orchestra,
Supertramp, Dixie Dregs, among others). Still working
a day job, because Arista contract didn't pay wages,
and record sales were disappointingly low.
1978: HTM recorded second album for Arista, in L.A.
again, with Ken Scott producing. I worked side by side
with Ken as the point man for the band. Still working
day job, since record sales didn't pick up. Arista dropped
HTM because of low sales.
1979: Left HTM to join British progressive-rock band
Camel. First paying job as musician, although I had
to take a back seat creatively and ended up being more
of a session player. Recorded an album "I Can See
Your House From Here" with Rupert Hine producing.
Toured Europe and Japan with Camel. No more day job,
although struggling with little income and dissatisfied
not pursuing my own musical vision.
1980: Left Camel after having my material rejected,
and recorded my first solo album "Labyrinth"
with former HTM band mate and drummer Coco Roussel.
1981-82: Still a starving artist, so went on the
road with Camel again for the "Nude" and "Single
Factor" tours in England and Europe.
1982: Released second album "Frames of Mind"
with Brad Allen. Last live performance of my career
(until The Gathering in 2001).
1983: Met my partner Bob Toft, and essentially quit
the music business as I knew it, in order to pursue
a grants newsletter business with him. This soon became
my bread and butter, and continues to this day. No longer
a starving artist.
1985-1990: Recorded and released "In Time,"
"Azure," and "SunStruck" for the
East Side Digital label.
1991: Started a new label, Linden Music, for release
of my alter-ego forms of music at that time (mostly
ambient). Other artists such as Jeff Greinke, Robert
Rich, and David Borden were released on the label.
1996: Distribution dried up for Linden Music and
the label folded.
1998: MP3.com became my new outlet for music.
1999: One Way Records re-released 4 of my "classic"
albums (Labyrinth, SunStruck, wet dark and low, Holographic
Tapestries).
2001: The Gathering concert in Philadelphia -- my
first solo performance ever, and first time on the stage
in 19 years.
2001: Tone Ghost Ether improvisational ensemble formed.
2003: MP3.com goes bust. New outlet for my CD catalog
found at CafePress.com.
2004: Several new CDs of ambient and progressive
world-fusion released at CafePress.com/KitWatkins.
AV:
Now that makes for quite an impressive resume.
Tell me about your introduction to what is called
ambient/space music and what were your initial
reactions to this style of music?
KW: I bought my first Revox reel-to-reel
tape recorder in 1973 and started experimenting with
sound-on-sound recording, and even dabbled a little
at what would probably be called "musique concrete."
It wasn't really ambient music, although some of the
pieces did lack rhythm and weren't musical compositions
in the traditional sense. They were very experimental
-- designed to create a mood or feeling, even if somewhat
jarring (banging on a spring reverb, or using drumsticks
on the strings of an upright piano lying on its side,
reversing instruments, using natural and found sounds).
Some of these experiments ended up being played during
HTM concerts as parts of songs (introductions or endings).
Probably my first big influence with ambient music was
Wendy Carlos's "Sonic Seasonings" in the mid-70s.
Also, Eberhard Weber's "The Colours of Chloe"
and "The Following Morning" had some spacey
parts that I loved.
Then, when Brian Eno started his ambient series a
few years later, I naturally gravitated toward what
he was doing. As far as electronic space music, I had
heard Tangerine Dream and Klaus Schulze and others,
but didn't resonate with it at all. It seemed so cold
and mechanical. I became much more interested in that
form of music with Steve Roach's work, which took it
to a new level that I could feel and relate to.
AV:
Music like many other interests in our lives tend
to grow and evolve over time, once you were exposed
to ambient/space music what kinds of changes took place
in what you were composing and playing?
KW: Well, it's hard to say specifically
regarding my non-ambient releases -- because, for those,
I was still thinking compositionally in terms of more
traditional music (chords, melodies). I had always been
experimenting with other forms, but just not pursuing
them front and center. When I started Linden Music,
I had an outlet for these other forms, so released the
Thought Tones series, as well as Circle, the latter
being a direct influence from "Sonic Seasonings."
AV:
There are times when many of the styles of music
that make up this genre (ambient, new age, space, world,
electronica, jazz) tend to overlap on one another, when
you describe your music to others do you try and place
it into certain categories or do you let it fall where
it may? Why?
KW: Oh, I let it fall where it
may, simply because categories are so restricting. I
would lose interest if I had to mold my music into a
cookie-cutter kind of thing. So, for me, avoiding the
pigeonholes and trying new forms is simply a way of
keeping myself engaged and sane. I abhor staying in
one place, almost as much as I dislike music built on
cliche.
AV:
Having had a variety of music styles in your background,
how do they help you express yourself as an ambient
musician?
KW: Ironically, it's somewhat
the other way around. Ambient or minimalist music helps
me shed the traps inherent in learned music and technique,
and therefore allows me to express myself better when
I'm in non-ambient mode.
AV:
Tell me about your first CD release that you could
actually call "ambient music" and what
was it that led up to its release? What kind of reaction
and responses did you get from your listening audience
and reviewers?
KW: Thought Tones Volume 1 would
be the first entirely ambient CD, although I'd been
creating somewhat ambient pieces from the very
beginning of my solo career:
"Cycles" at the end of my first solo CD
"Labyrinth" in 1980, "Innocent Adventure"
from "Azure," and "Mirage"
and "Canopy" from "SunStruck." "Thought
Tones" actually evolved out of the initial
work on "Circle." I was creating drones of
various kinds to place within the context of crickets
and other natural environmental recordings, and was
listening to the drones in isolation, realizing that
they had a lot more intrigue and mystery alone. So "Thought
Tones" really happened more as a tangent than an
intention. The responses were very positive and encouraging.
I'm sure some of the die-hard prog-rockers in my audience
didn't relate, but they mostly kept quiet (that's my
first rule in creating ambient music: learn to be still)
so I guess there's hope!
AV:
In the early 90's you formed a new label called
Linden Music which included the likes of Robert Rich,
David Borden and Jeff Greinke. First off how was
it that you had started to make contact with some of
these artists and what were you hoping to accomplish
with the formation of this new label?
KW: My distributor for Linden
Music was Steve Feigenbaum of Cuneiform Records, and
he introduced me to Jeff Greinke, who I had never heard
at that point (early 90s). I loved what Jeff was doing
(and still do) and approached him about releasing something.
Robert Rich was an acquaintence of Jeff's and contacted
me about his "Numena" and "Geometry"
releases, having had trouble finding a domestic label
for them (they had been released in Europe previously).
David Borden was a Cuneiform artist, and he had this
great CD "Cuyuga Night Music" which didn't
fit into the Cuneiform style, so I was thrilled to be
able to release that. My idea with the label was simply
to try and become more self-sufficient with my own music,
as well as have some like-minded quality artists to
release, and therefore create a niche market for an
ongoing catalog of musics that interested me. It was
a great ride while it lasted!
AV:
From your last answer it sounds like Linden Music
is not still a viable entity, if so when was it that
the label ceased to be and why did it disappear?
KW: Linden Music closed down
in 1996. Distribution dried up -- mostly as a result
of Tower Records (one of our larger buyers) getting
rid of smaller accounts like ours. Tower was hit with
losses, not being able to compete with stores like Best
Buy who were selling CDs as loss leaders (items sold
at no profit, in order to entice buyers into the store
to sell them other items in which the store does make
a profit). And since Tower only sold CDs, they couldn't
compete and had to scale down. I tried to get new age
and other independent distributors interested to no
avail, so finally gave up.
AV:
How much more difficult is it to be an artist
and to be the one who runs the label as well? What kinds
of additional responsibilities do you have taking care
of both roles? Is it something you'd recommend to those
who can not find a major label to release their music?
KW: There's a lot of administration
involved with running a record label, and that's time
consuming and not particularly a lot of fun, unless
you love accounting and such. I don't recommend it to
individual musicians now since the internet provides
a more cost-effective and rewarding outlet (for having
your music heard via streaming and downloads, and for
creating and selling on-demand CDs). MP3.com had a great
thing going, and hopefully CNET will provide an even
better service and artist community, once they launch
their new service.
AV:
Where do you look to find the inspiration for
creating your music? Is it something within or something
without that offers you the most inspiration?
KW: For me, creating music is
mostly an introspective endeavor, although I often need
external stimuli to get me started. I find other people's
music can do that, or even something not related to
music -- something visual perhaps. Sometimes I get an
idea that feeds off of another idea I started on, which
is where Thought Tones came from.
In general, once I get going with the creative process,
it becomes a solitary and introspective ordeal. I can
really get lost in it, especially when things are really
falling into place. But, like a lot of creative work,
there's the 99% perspiration - 1% inspiration thing
happening too. I spend a lot of time getting my instruments
and setup and technical ducks in order, and it can be
painstaking at times. Then, once everything is fairly
in place, hopefully the inspiration will follow suit.
AV:
Tell me about a typical day in the studio and
how you go about creating, editing and mixing ideas
into something that most of us enjoy listening to. Any
particular instruments that you are partial to during
this creative process?
KW: Well, there's really no such
thing as a typical day when it comes to my creative
process in the studio. That's because I'm always looking
for another way to keep myself interested, so I tend
not to repeat past methods or approaches, at least not
in a literal way. Usually, I've become infatuated with
some instrument or idea, and want to pursue some means
of expression with it. For example, a piece on "The
Unseen" called "Logarhythm" was based
on a log drum (tongue drum) improvisation. Once I got
started on that, I started imagining and experimenting
with things to add. Most of what I do is based on intuition
mixed with trial and error -- leaving myself open to
using mistakes or whimsy, rather than having to follow
"oughts" and "shoulds" which my
mind will tend to dictate. In the past, I was much more
formal about music composition, but nowadays I'm more
fascinated with the mystery inherent in things less
structured and more abstract. If I can create something
that I don't understand, that's a good sign. I believe
I'm paraphrasing John Cage when I say that. He had it
right.
AV:
Are musicians like writers when it comes to hitting
a wall and experiencing writers block? What do you do
to break out of "writers block" and get the
juices flowing once more?
KW: I do get writer's block as
a musician, but that's more a mental condition of being
in negative space or even depressed, more than anything
else. In general, if I can get myself motivated to start
creating something, even if I'm not particularly in
the mood, I can often get pulled into the process --
sort of a snowball effect. For me, it's really just
a question of taking that first step and making myself
get out of my comfy chair.
AV:
Has the entire process of creating a body of music
for CD gotten any easier over the years with each successive
release?
KW: Yes.
I used to sweat over the most minute details that nobody
else had a clue about. Now, I'm a lot sloppier with
production, and it's great because I can concentrate
more on what I'm trying to say, and less on whether
it's 24-bit or whatever. I've given up being such a
control freak, and have learned to enjoy the wonderful
world of mistakes! I also utilize improvisation much
more than I used to, sometimes exclusively, and I love
the immediacy that comes with that.
AV:
Are there any of the CDs that you've released
over the years that are milestones to you in as far
as your development as a musician? What was it about
these pieces of music that make you feel they are special
in the overall scheme of things?
KW: Each CD has been a learning
experience and has usually represented a different direction
from the previous release. So, there has been a cumulative
growth I suppose, and maybe even some unlearning. In
that regard, Thought Tones was a milestone simply because
it was the ultimate letting go of ego, of control, of
needing to prove something or impress somebody. It was
quite a paradox because I worked very little to create
it, but found it immensely rewarding to listen to. And,
it still holds up for me in ways that some of my other
CDs don't. Of course, this is only my perspective because
what I'm talking about is familiarity with my work.
I know my other CDs so well because I crafted them in
a slow, methodical, and painstakingly repetitive way
-- so much so, that when I hear them, there are no surprises
for me. With Thought Tones, there's still something
unknown about them that keeps me mystified, maybe because
there's a lot less of "me" in them.
Another milestone for me was The Gathering concert,
because I stepped more into the unknown with some of
the pieces performed there by trusting my ability to
improvise my way through them. There were certainly
a few tunes that were totally structured, but there
were also quite a few which I left somewhat open. It
was scary and new for me, but ultimately the most rewarding
live experience I've had. Following the concert, I did
an hour-long live improvisation entitled "music
for the end" on the Star's End radio show. Again,
this was a milestone for me because the entire piece
was created on the spot without a safety net -- I had
only prepared the patches on the keyboard and electronic
wind instrument, and had some environmental sounds prerecorded
that played in the background.
AV:
You are also involved with another project called
Tone Ghost Ether, what is Tone Ghost Ether all about
and what prompted your involvement with this side project?
KW: TGE grew out of Sunday afternoon
jam sessions for fun, using my live performance setup
for The Gathering. Brad and John would come over and
we'd spend 4 or 5 hours playing, with no preconceived
notion or plan -- one of us would just start something
and we'd go with it, sometimes ad nauseum! But, oftentimes,
the music just spontaneously fell into place. Fortunately,
I had the tape recorder running to capture most everything.
We did this for a number of weeks and accumulated a
large amount of material -- the best of which was released
on the initial 3 CDs in 2002, and then a 4th CD just
recently (February 2004). It's some of my favorite music
to listen to because the sound is so different, fresh,
and unusual.... not composed or stiff at all. Unfortunately,
I'm now living 5 hours away from Brad and John, so we
won't be able to continue TGE very easily.
AV:
You mentioned the internet as being a very useful
tool for the independent musician to get their music
out to the public, what kinds of changes has the internet
brought about as far as distribution and marketing of
music up to this point? Another aspect of this question
has to do with where it is heading to in the future.
Are physical copies of the music on CD headed for extinction
in the future due to other delivery methods?
KW: The big change with the internet
is that it gives musicians direct contact with listeners.
It's a new avenue for getting the music out there, and
it's great because it disposes of the middlemen.
For independent musicians like me, it really has become
our lifeblood.
Before the internet, my music could only reach the
listeners if a record label or distributor decided to
take it. And, as mentioned previously, that's why Linden
Music went out of business -- by 1996, the distributors
were all saying "no." Independent musicians
are no longer at the mercy of the middlemen, and that's
a very good thing for opening up artistic expression
worldwide, and especially in the U.S. where music has
become so extremely market-driven. The internet really
is a godsend.
Where is the internet headed? Hopefully toward more
openness and accessibility.
With regard to music, I do think that the CD will
continue its viability the same way magazines and books
have, even in this "paperless" age. Sure there
are plenty of people who download music and burn it
to CD-R, but there are also lots of people who still
prefer to buy the pre-packaged music and artwork. It's
less hassle and looks a lot better too.
AV:
You had just mentioned that you enjoy improvisation
quite a bit in creating your work and as luck would
have it your latest release "This Time and Space"
which is just out, is also an improvisational CD. Tell
me what listeners are likely to find on this new CD
and a little bit about how you improvise an entire CD
and yet maintain continuity for the piece as a whole.
KW: "This Time and Space"
is a collection of unintended improvisations. In other
words, I wasn't specifically thinking about creating
a new CD when I played the pieces. I was simply improvising
in my live performance space at different points in
time. I collected the recordings and was sifting through
them last summer, and burned a CD-R to listen to in
my car. As I listened to the pieces, they began to sink
in and improve with age, which is always a good sign.
There were two or three pieces that didn't hold up or
seemed out of place, so I removed them. And, one of
the pieces had a rhythmic introduction which I decided
to cut in order to keep the ambient continuity. The
instrumentation is somewhat limited because I was working
with my live performance setup only ~ electronic wind
instrument, synthesizer, some light percussion ~ and
this gives the individual pieces a similar quality,
which is why I believe they work so well as a group.
AV:
Over the years your musical instruments and equipment
have obviously changed, do you find it easier to use
the current crop of technology to create your music
with or does it make no difference at all to what you
do?
KW: It makes a huge difference
-- the instruments and technology I use are essential
to what I create. Technology has certainly evolved,
but I still enjoy some of the older gear as well, within
its limitations. The main electronic technologies I
rely on now are virtual modeling synthesis, sampling/synthesis,
and hard disk recording. In the last few years, the
electronic wind instrument (with virtual modeling synthesizer)
has become one of my central voices. But, I'm not satisfied
with working solely within the electronic domain. I
usually prefer to combine electronics with acoustics.
I have a rather extensive collection of acoustic sound
sources -- non-traditional instruments like the waterphone,
as well as traditional percussion, drums, guitars, etc.
And, of course, there's the grand piano which is one
of my favorite "technologies" of all time.
AV:
Do you ever hear the criticism that ambient music
is not music at all because it has very little structure
to it in the sense of notes written out on a page. How
do you answer those who think less of ambient/space
music simply because it does not follow the same rules
as say classical music and appears to certain listeners
as random sounds generated on a keyboard?
KW: I don't give critics much
credence, so there's really nobody to answer to. The
only purpose of criticism is to help justify someone's
insecurity about his or her subjective preferences.
It's a comparative exercise that really has no value,
in my opinion.
However, I believe music reviews (not music critiques)
can be helpful when they describe music and guide listeners
with objective points of view. Those who would compare
ambient/space music to classical (or to rap or to jazz
or to the myriad of other musical forms) are comparing
apples to oranges. The bottom line is that all music
is valid, even if nobody hears it. I play a lot of music
without recording it, simply for my own enjoyment.
AV:
January has seen two releases from you, the second
one being unraveled. It is a shorter CD but with a definite
purpose in mind during the creation, tell me about what
it was that prompted this piece of music. Since music
can not tell a specific story to the listeners do you
go out of your way on a piece like this to explain to
your listeners why it came about and what it means?
KW: In this case, I did describe
why "unraveled" was created. Essentially,
it was my reaction to the impending, illegal war in
Iraq in February 2003. I felt (and still feel) much
dismay at what the Bush administration has done in our
name. The French-bashing by the right wing in this country
was an abomination, in my view. In the past, I've bitten
my lip and stayed out of the political arena when it
comes to my music --during the Reagan years, for example.
But, Bush and Co. are so extreme and so dangerous and
despicable, that I feel we must speak out against the
insanity.
"unraveled" is a combination of political
statement/reaction and artistic sentiment designed to
provoke various responses from the listener. It's also
open to interpretation, but I'll put in my 2 cents.
The first piece has some dissonance, and could represent
the dissonant mind of those who would use power and
greed to start a war. The second piece has a sadness
to it, which is the inevitable result of the destruction
of a country, and the lives lost. The third piece is
calm and peaceful. It represents hope that justice will
be served, and that good people will eventually prevail.
AV:
It was interesting that you drew on a classical
composer for unraveled, do you find that there are other
classical pieces that find their way into your music
even if on a subconscious level?
KW: Ravel is one of my favorite
classical composers, and it was fitting that he was
French as well (for most of his life, at least). My
influences from classical composers, especially the
French impressionists, as well as modern musicians,
probably works its way into my music through my subconscious.
It's difficult for me to be aware of it, however. I
don't hear my own music very objectively, as others
might. I do know that I'm not consciously trying to
blatantly imitate another artist (most of the time).
AV:
Do you do a lot of "live" performances
or was The Gathering a unique experience for you? Do
you plan on doing anymore of this kind of performance
and if so where might some of your listeners be able
to catch you doing your thing live?
KW: I haven't performed again
since The Gathering, for a variety of reasons -- primarily
because of moving twice since then. It's something I
want to do again, but at present I am not working toward
that simply because I have other priorities that are
taking my time. I'm living in Raleigh now, so I expect
any concert I perform would be in this area since any
kind of traveling or touring is out of the question,
given my present circumstances.
AV:
I hope that this has not been too torturous for
you but I am glad that you took the time to talk to
us here at Ambient Visions. Thanks so much. Are there
any final thoughts that you would like to leave with
the readers of AV about your music or where you might
be heading in the future?
KW: Thanks Michael. I enjoyed
the interrogation, I mean interview! For those readers
interested in progressive world-fusion, there's another
new CD that I released in January called "Flying
Petals." More info and sound clips are available
at my web site: KitWatkins.com
AV:
It has been a pleasure talking to you and one
of these days when you do another live show beyond your
home town area I do hope that I get to attend. Until
then smooth sailing with all of your projects yet to
come.
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